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CFM's avatar
4dEdited

You really outdid yourself this week!

Just wanting to add on a little for fun possible connections.

Please correct me if I'm wrong regarding point 1, I'm not American or English, but found this interesting but I might not have as good a grasp of the Anglo-American history.

1.

Working through negative space is important when discussing the religious factions of the day. It's also incredibly time consuming. As in, what is left out when talking, especially in terms of uncomfortable history. (Such as being proven wrong or unable to argued about in favor of themselves)

It's important to reflect the the initial Mayflower pilgrims and first wave of religious outcast that formed the founding of the United states. Who then had the charter of Massachusetts being revoked, under Charles II. There is always another angle. In that revoking act, the initial settlers became a colony, without a choice. A colony to those who they initially fled from. When they become valuable.

The next half century slowly leading to their erosion of religious identity they had fled to preserve. Whether this was entropy of religious world at the time, or connections with the influence of the colonial link to the king is another enigma. Who benefits from it, is a better question maybe.

Cue the entrance of some Jacobite's being led from their country to the new world within the next 80~ years. When their rebellions did not go to plan. As political prisoners or servants.

So recapping:

The puritans and pilgrims, losing what they had to kings who caught up to where they fled. Whose supporters (the Jacobite's) eventually arrive to that new land (Not necessarily all, and not necessarily by choice for those who did). Arriving to a land, as victims. Joining the nation, whose ancestors were victimized by the kings the Jacobite's supported.

Stranger then fiction, and thus real. I think knowing Pynchon we have to keep that doubt in mind, when being told who said what especially among the religious of the era. Who definitely all knew their history. Not sure, if this is the right place to go this far into it, but your mention of the Jacobite's appearance in the US, made me reflect on this.

In the end, they ended up being in the same boat. Of whatever the powers at be decided they were to be. Supporting the very thing, that will punish you for being who you are. Even though it was what made them.

2.

I had something come to mind about the China conspiracy. The future control of China by foreign forces during the century of humiliation (Thus the penetration). Leading to the Boxer Rebellion which is in itself one of the greatest example of what you are alluding to. If not Pynchon himself. A tragedy and crisis of what imperialism becomes.

Which also had missionary Christians, having more rights in certain cases, and expanding their sphere of influence deeper into China at the time. Which was another of the instigating functions for the eventual Boxer Rebellion. Though there were so many, but one being anti-christian is key to this Jesuit conspiracy.

The boxer rebellion which in it’s struggle for freedom, unified many foreign powers to fight off the Chinese attempt at control of their own nation. China being viewed possibly as a greater threat that was currently successfully contained. (One of these foreign power being the US troops sent in.)

Leading to Chinese culture as a whole reflected in countries such as Taiwan, China and Singapore — to view drugs as a epidemic in which to subdue the masses and thus retain colonial or foreign control on them. Possibly? It was the case then, but overtime it might have evolved into a new logic, as drugs might have new significance in their culture’s today. Compared to a 100 years ago. They (Chinese) having been the victim of opium for so long. (Opium wars and Century of humiliation )

I remembered this tangent and found it too interesting thematically not to mention. Always hard to tell with Pynchon how far the thought should go. In terms of timeline.

3.

"And to clarify for those who are not seeing the analogy: this is not an advocation for doing something as stupid as learning about calculus before learning arithmetic, or learning about Freud’s theories before learning how to write your name. The analogy merely tracks that pushing for one train of thought endlessly without even hinting at further knowledge will inevitably lead the student toward treating that initial idea as sacrosanct, making it more difficult to accept an entirely new world view without consciously striving for it."

Very funny, made me laugh and absolutely real.

Not sure if it's faint connection or not, but the Anglican imposed religion, might have ties to what the Chinese had to endure? A quasi colony enduring missionary converting without much say due to imperial pressure?

But while the originally puritans got to flee, the Chinese had no choice but to rise up against this religious imposition. Almost inversed. No fleeing west, as the threat is coming from the west and you can only fight back or submit.

And thus the imperial power built from religious rebels forces down rebels to impose religion.

Which leads the Chinese to also flee into conditions of empire building for foreign powers, like the puritans forced to build, then reclaimed into myth (Sun Yat-Sen) or the American mythologising of a misremembered puritans. With the final image being that of puritans descendants seizing land, Jacobites descendents fighting for republic instead of kings, and the Chinese state becoming what they fought against. People being victims to their own decisions.

Went way too far replying. Thank you for the big chapter this week.

Have a good week and weekend!

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Rick V's avatar

Brilliant stuff this week. A couple of thoughts, if I may:

"Brainwashing thus seems to have an inherent or inseparable connection with this idea of a straight line or straight path forward."

It seems to me that it's not lines themselves that are condusive to brainwashing, but *the act of making them.* Let's not forget that Mesmer himself induced hypnotic states by making linear "'passes', moving his hands from the patient's shoulders down along their arms." (Wikipedia)

And later , "I have talked with several who have witnessed these effects, who have convulsions occasioned and removed by a movement of the hand.."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Mesmer#Procedure

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