You gotta read Farina's BDSLILLUTM !!! It is like toy Pynchon. Also there is a great longread out there somewher about Farina's wedding, which Pynchon was very present for
I will check this out for sure. I mostly meant no "published" analysis has done it justice. I have more faith in independent people like you and me to look past the standard literary value of the novel and analyze it's political implications more seriously. Your titles alone intrigue me so I'll make sure to check them out when I have a sec this weekend!
Wow, there is so much to unpack just in these opening pages! I had never considered the significance of the parabolic arc imagery before. And the connections you drew between the "beyond the zero" concept and the different realms/axes was illuminating.
Not an expert on this book so I may be making obvious connections, and it has been a while since I read it. Extinction is a Pavlovian term as well. Do you see any connections between the Pavlovian stuff later in the novel and this epigraph? The concept of extinction and disintegration is an easy theme for me to notice in this book, both in the narrow scientific definition and in the common, human species kind of extinction. Both the Holocaust and the potential of nuclear holocaust, probably deeply felt in America in the 70s when GR was written, cast an ominous shadow over the narrative. Two events, one occurring while the story happens (or has occurred, I don't remember the exact years GR takes place in) and one with the potential to occur. There is an odd hopefulness to the Von Braun quote that seems incongruent with Pynchon to me. Do you think there is some irony to the chosen epigraph, or that Part 1 is meant to be a rebuttal of Von Braun?
From my notes when I read the novel, probably taken from some basic googling and wiki-searching as I don't have a scientific background whatsoever: "In Pavlov’s work, the Extinction process is when the conditioned stimulus (the bell ringing in the dog example) is presented repeatedly without the unconditioned stimulus (reward). The Conditioned Response eventually returns to pre-training levels (back to Zero?) but the subject (dog) is still affected by the conditioning. There is such a thing as Spontaneous Recovery, when the reward returns, the conditioned response can resurface much more quickly."
What are your thoughts on the epigraph as it specifically relates to Slothrope and his conditioned response to the V2?
I think the relation to Pavlovian Extinction is that Slothrop himself is seeking extinction yet does not know how to do it. He is a hopeless individual attempting to get rid of the response but cannot find a way to get rid of the stimulus - i.e. The Rocket. It's incredibly ironic because the extinction of his response would save the world from extinction of another kind.
The quote is ironic on a number of levels. One, is that Braun's interpretation of his own quote (and most people's interpretation upon a first read) is at the literal level. That there is life after death. But Pynchon's irony is that it also means what I wrote about above. Second, and more importantly, is in relation to Slothrop, though I didn't think about this until you mentioned Pavlovian Extinction, so thank you! If nature does not know extinction, that means Slothrop cannot remove the response, he can simply transform the response. Maybe a call to action of sorts? I.e. instead of focusing our efforts on removing the response (paranoia or something like that), let's transform that goal into destroying the stimulus itself (the rocket/the state/etc.)
I especially like your early emphasis on coal/oil resource extraction in GR...that's really what got me started on my big project of writing about sentient oil, and it's not often discussed about GR. Nice choice for an angle of entry.
Thanks so much! Have you read Cyclonopedia? I've heard that tackles those themes a lot as well. I haven't read it though, but I own a copy that I've been meaning to get to.
Yeah, man. I'm a huge Cyclonopedia proselytizer. I'm glad you're one of the (only) 4,000 people to own a copy, highly recommended. Sometimes I say that the only reason I write is to try to get people to read GR and Cyclonopedia. Not that may people are reading me; they're not. I quote it and GR in almost every essay I write, like this one
“Capitalism was here even before human existence, waiting for a host.”
Shit... Now that's a quote. Makes me instantly want to pick it up. I'm reducing my current reading stack because I'm busy as hell these next few weeks and I'm trying to start this substack up, but I'm gonna immediately read Cyclonopedia once things slow down near the end of May. I have all the articles you've shared with me bookmarked as well.
The author is interesting. He wrote it in Tehran, and then around 2012 he emigrated to America, and I think his work...evolved in a more boring direction, actually. So he turned out to be something of a lib, which I respect for him--I don't know his life or his circumstances. But to me, Cyclonopedia remains a masterpiece, if a poorly-organized notebook dump. Let me know at my 'stack what you think, both of you. Meanwhile, very happy to turn my attention back to its happy place, Gravity's Rainbow, the greatest novel of history in history.
I will do that. I'm also reading GR and suspect I'll be in this Pynchon wormhole for a while, certainly until the end f the year, as I read and reread his works. Cyclonopedia seems up my alley and worth a look.
Quick question: Are you using “lib” as a pejorative? Or am I not understanding? I'm 47 and, sometimes, a little behind the curve in slang or whatever, and I occasionally need to google when four of the six kids I have are texting or talking.
I definitely agree; GR is the greatest novel of history in history.
Damn, six kids. I've got one and it's too much for me to handle. Totally proud of you for reading GR... it is the most rewarding book and most worth the effort, whereas you can get your Negarestani just from following my work -- he left plenty of room to build new things from that basic premise that oil is actually the protagonist of history.
Yes, perhaps that was flip but that was what I meant. I respect liberals and work with them in common causes all the time. I'm a communist, though. Whatever else that means, it means that ultimately liberals want to uphold the system that I want to dismantle. But solidarity forever nonetheless... it's a big tent, there's room for all.
You gotta read Farina's BDSLILLUTM !!! It is like toy Pynchon. Also there is a great longread out there somewher about Farina's wedding, which Pynchon was very present for
I plan on it eventually. Maybe I'll give it a read after my current GR reread. That longread sounds fantastic lol, I'm gonna have to look for it now.
Also in the first post you said there hasn't been an analysis of GR that hits the mark, so I gotta make sure you've seen mine.
https://thespouter.substack.com/p/from-the-vault-a-schizoanalysis-of
https://thespouter.substack.com/p/a-schizoanalysis-of-gravitys-rainbow
https://thespouter.substack.com/p/gravitys-rainbow-iii-racism-and-colonial
I will check this out for sure. I mostly meant no "published" analysis has done it justice. I have more faith in independent people like you and me to look past the standard literary value of the novel and analyze it's political implications more seriously. Your titles alone intrigue me so I'll make sure to check them out when I have a sec this weekend!
Wow, there is so much to unpack just in these opening pages! I had never considered the significance of the parabolic arc imagery before. And the connections you drew between the "beyond the zero" concept and the different realms/axes was illuminating.
Thank you! Everything he included has so many layers, from titles to epigraphs to whatever. Hence why I love it so much.
Not an expert on this book so I may be making obvious connections, and it has been a while since I read it. Extinction is a Pavlovian term as well. Do you see any connections between the Pavlovian stuff later in the novel and this epigraph? The concept of extinction and disintegration is an easy theme for me to notice in this book, both in the narrow scientific definition and in the common, human species kind of extinction. Both the Holocaust and the potential of nuclear holocaust, probably deeply felt in America in the 70s when GR was written, cast an ominous shadow over the narrative. Two events, one occurring while the story happens (or has occurred, I don't remember the exact years GR takes place in) and one with the potential to occur. There is an odd hopefulness to the Von Braun quote that seems incongruent with Pynchon to me. Do you think there is some irony to the chosen epigraph, or that Part 1 is meant to be a rebuttal of Von Braun?
From my notes when I read the novel, probably taken from some basic googling and wiki-searching as I don't have a scientific background whatsoever: "In Pavlov’s work, the Extinction process is when the conditioned stimulus (the bell ringing in the dog example) is presented repeatedly without the unconditioned stimulus (reward). The Conditioned Response eventually returns to pre-training levels (back to Zero?) but the subject (dog) is still affected by the conditioning. There is such a thing as Spontaneous Recovery, when the reward returns, the conditioned response can resurface much more quickly."
What are your thoughts on the epigraph as it specifically relates to Slothrope and his conditioned response to the V2?
I think the relation to Pavlovian Extinction is that Slothrop himself is seeking extinction yet does not know how to do it. He is a hopeless individual attempting to get rid of the response but cannot find a way to get rid of the stimulus - i.e. The Rocket. It's incredibly ironic because the extinction of his response would save the world from extinction of another kind.
The quote is ironic on a number of levels. One, is that Braun's interpretation of his own quote (and most people's interpretation upon a first read) is at the literal level. That there is life after death. But Pynchon's irony is that it also means what I wrote about above. Second, and more importantly, is in relation to Slothrop, though I didn't think about this until you mentioned Pavlovian Extinction, so thank you! If nature does not know extinction, that means Slothrop cannot remove the response, he can simply transform the response. Maybe a call to action of sorts? I.e. instead of focusing our efforts on removing the response (paranoia or something like that), let's transform that goal into destroying the stimulus itself (the rocket/the state/etc.)
I am here for this, so hard.
I especially like your early emphasis on coal/oil resource extraction in GR...that's really what got me started on my big project of writing about sentient oil, and it's not often discussed about GR. Nice choice for an angle of entry.
Thanks so much! Have you read Cyclonopedia? I've heard that tackles those themes a lot as well. I haven't read it though, but I own a copy that I've been meaning to get to.
Yeah, man. I'm a huge Cyclonopedia proselytizer. I'm glad you're one of the (only) 4,000 people to own a copy, highly recommended. Sometimes I say that the only reason I write is to try to get people to read GR and Cyclonopedia. Not that may people are reading me; they're not. I quote it and GR in almost every essay I write, like this one
https://apocalypse-confidential.com/2022/09/08/the-autonomous-chemical-weapon-how-sentient-oil-took-control-of-our-history-part-one/
“Capitalism was here even before human existence, waiting for a host.”
Shit... Now that's a quote. Makes me instantly want to pick it up. I'm reducing my current reading stack because I'm busy as hell these next few weeks and I'm trying to start this substack up, but I'm gonna immediately read Cyclonopedia once things slow down near the end of May. I have all the articles you've shared with me bookmarked as well.
I just Googled, then Amazoned, and ordered Cyclonopedia. Looks awesome. I have never heard of it or the author. Thanks.
The author is interesting. He wrote it in Tehran, and then around 2012 he emigrated to America, and I think his work...evolved in a more boring direction, actually. So he turned out to be something of a lib, which I respect for him--I don't know his life or his circumstances. But to me, Cyclonopedia remains a masterpiece, if a poorly-organized notebook dump. Let me know at my 'stack what you think, both of you. Meanwhile, very happy to turn my attention back to its happy place, Gravity's Rainbow, the greatest novel of history in history.
I will do that. I'm also reading GR and suspect I'll be in this Pynchon wormhole for a while, certainly until the end f the year, as I read and reread his works. Cyclonopedia seems up my alley and worth a look.
Quick question: Are you using “lib” as a pejorative? Or am I not understanding? I'm 47 and, sometimes, a little behind the curve in slang or whatever, and I occasionally need to google when four of the six kids I have are texting or talking.
I definitely agree; GR is the greatest novel of history in history.
Damn, six kids. I've got one and it's too much for me to handle. Totally proud of you for reading GR... it is the most rewarding book and most worth the effort, whereas you can get your Negarestani just from following my work -- he left plenty of room to build new things from that basic premise that oil is actually the protagonist of history.
Yes, perhaps that was flip but that was what I meant. I respect liberals and work with them in common causes all the time. I'm a communist, though. Whatever else that means, it means that ultimately liberals want to uphold the system that I want to dismantle. But solidarity forever nonetheless... it's a big tent, there's room for all.